enthusiasm

Q  Rinpoche, in ‘Spectrum of Ecstasy’ you talk about mirroring each other’s kyil’khors, or mandalas. Could you talk a bit about that? I’m a bit confused about taking each other as being the centre, instead of mirroring – trying to make someone else the centre.

R  This is actually simply a matter of interaction. For example, being enthusiastic about someone else’s enthusiasm. Mirroring here—in terms of kyil’khor—concerns bodhicitta in terms of appreciative empathy.

Q  Appreciative empathy?

R  Yes. If someone is enthusiastic, you could enter into their enthusiasm – even though the subject of their enthusiasm might not resemble anything about which you might be enthusiastic. One can be enthusiastic simply because someone else is enthusiastic – because that, in itself, is delightful. For example; we have an apprentice who is a card-carrying obsessive, and his particular subject is stereo. He has mortgageable stereo. This man has two amplifiers – one for each channel. I do not particularly want to go that way; but when he is talking about it, I could easily say: “Ah, yes. That is great, I should get something like that.” I can see myself rapturising about that – especially if it could all be matte back with an array of light-emitting diodes. It is delightful to hear him talk about how good this is . . . and how there is equipment even he has not yet obtained – but which he is fervidly considering. It is like that. It is a mirroring process. I feel delighted that this person is so obsessed – so appreciative. It makes life worthwhile that someone could have an amplifier for each channel of his stereo. Or it could be ‘Christmas Villages’. That could be the thing – there is an apprentice who loves them, and when she talks about them I start feeling as if I should have one as well. It does not matter what it is [laughs] . . . well . . . we are obviously discounting causing pain to others. This does not mean that I have gone out and bought these things because my ‘envy’ has been stirred. It has nothing to do with ‘envy’ or with feeling that one is inadequate by virtue of not owning whatever it may be. It is simply the shared delight in delight.

Q  So, this could be something that happens naturally if you are in touch with any sense of what bodhicitta means?

R  Yes.

Q  You can get excited about someone else’s excitement.

R  Yes.

Q  And that plays into sexuality as well.

R  Naturally.

Q  So . . . whether this is working, whether it is pleasurable or not, depends on one’s relationship with the other person.

R  Yes. Not being interested in what the other person is experiencing is actually extremely degenerate – one might as well be on one’s own with a magazine. The more interested one is in what the other is experiencing, the more interest it arouses.

Q  So you get to the point where you don’t really distinguish between your pleasure and another person’s pleasure?

R  It becomes self-existent pleasure.

Q  That is the Tantric view?

R  [laughs] Or maybe one which is quite like it. It is one which has to be founded in some experience of emptiness. That is what we are attempting in our practice.

Q  So that’s helpful for people in terms of being happy and entering into the idea that if other people are happy then I can be happy?

R  Certainly – yes. That happiness, lust, or joy can be infectious. You can see that if someone talks to you of their enthusiasm. If you show interest, they become more enthusiastic – and then you can become more enthusiastic. That can happen with anyone. You could say: “Tell me about philately and why you enjoy stamps so much”. That is the way to get the best from people. The world is full of people who love different things and we can all hitch rides on that to the mutual advantage of all beings. It is not that we come away from a discussion with a philatelist and find that we need to buy a stamp album. It is not possible to live everyone’s enthusiasm just as they do – but we can be right with them whilst they are in the full swing of it. It could be anything.